What is an empath personality type? – Judith Orloff, MD:

Judith Orloff

thank you all for being here and let’s begin so first off Judith Orloff we just want to start with that with beginning with what exactly is an empath if you could speak upon that so I just want to say how excited I am to be here the energy here is so incredible it’s so beautiful and I as an empath I’m an emotional sponge and I tend to absorb other people’s emotions or even physical symptoms or the energy per place into my own body but when it’s in and when it’s like this it’s sort of true pleasure you know it’s a beautiful work environment so I’m very grateful to be here I’m a psychiatrist in Santa Monica and I’m also an empath and so I combine traditional psychiatric skills with my ability to intuit what’s going on in the environment and being an empath somebody who is very sensitive very intuitive very open but they tend to take on the stress of the world because they don’t have the same filters that other people have and so I feel everything you know which can be a plus and a minus and so I wanted to write the empath Survival Guide to give people skills how not to absorb the stress of others you know particularly in the work environments if you’re next to people perhaps you’re uncomfortable with how to just hold the space or them but not take it on because empath take it on and as a result you know I can get exhausted or when I was a child I couldn’t go into shopping malls or crowded places because I go in fine and then I walk out with an ache or pain or anxiety or exhaustion that I didn’t have before and I didn’t realize then as a little girl that I was picking up the energy and the emotions of other people that the whole phenomena of emotional contagion that can happen that we know so much now that for instance if you’re in a children’s ward a baby ward in the hospital if one baby starts crying the rest of them start crying you know or if you’re in a work environment and somebody you know has very negative energy and as a downer it can spread to the rest of the people like a virus and so as an empath that’s particularly intense and so I want to say that the this is a gift and we need to learn how to to manage it as well so I think you sort of answered part of my second question or the second question that we’ve put together but it was how did you become involved in studying empathy and then because this group is very curious and science minded I wondered if you could speak about the science that has come out about empathy yeah the science behind empathy is fascinating it’s believed that there’s a spectrum of empathy whereas ordinary empathy which is so beautiful is where you can feel something for someone else as they’re going through it but you don’t actually take it on in your own body so up higher on the spectrum or the highly sensitive people who have sensitivity to light sound noise like to be alone like to be in nature replenish themselves by themselves rather than in crowds of people are going to parties and then on the high end is the empath who absorbs energy from other people and is extremely empathic and the science behind it includes mirror neuron research where it’s thought that with people with extreme empathy the mirror neurons the compassion neurons of the brain are hyperactive where they’re just working overtime where we feel compassion for everything and everybody and the world and it could get to be too much but it’s thought that the mirror neurons are really working overtime as compared to let’s say a narcissist or a sociopath who are thought who have empathy deficient disorder meaning they don’t really have empathy as we know it there are mirror neurons are thought to be hypoactive meaning they’re not really functioning and you know full-tilt and then there’s the whole phenomena of emotional contagion which I mentioned is that emotions can be catchy and we are sensitive to how people are around us their emotions affect us even if we’re not in paths that somebody else’s emotions if they come into your work environment and they’re a drama queen or they’re a chronic talker or they’re a victim where they always want to talk about themselves and their victims status it brings you down if you’re an open-hearted person you know if you thought you’re open and you feel all this your energy goes down so it’s important to understand emotional contagion and also the concept of dopamine where dopamine is the pleasure hormone and it’s thought that empaths need a smaller amount of dopamine to feel good then let’s say extroverts who get their dopamine fix from going out you know with big parties and big events and football games and you get a large dopamine hit with that but empaths get satisfied by a very little interaction for instance as an empath I love one-to-one interactions I really enjoy them but when it gets to be a lot of people it gets overwhelming for me as I love to connect and then to many people on a personal level it’s hard for me I speak to large groups and that’s a bit different but on a personal level I prefer to have small gatherings and it could be the dopamine explanation and research because it just require very little I get filled very easily by happiness and I get drained if I stay in a social situation for too long it’s too much for me because I get overstimulated and too much is coming in too fast with sensory overload so if you’re an empath or you’re a sensitive person it’s good to look at the science behind it you know and it’s it’s not also the electromagnetic energy from the heart and the brain gives off information and so we’re transmitting information that if you’re sensitive like you’re an empath you can feel all this but the problem is empath don’t know how to manage all this and I think if you break down the science and you begin to look at the various aspects of the science it’s very useful in terms of explaining what you’re feeling and why you’re feeling it Thank You Judith in relation to some of the things you have talked about with the science and some of the terminologies that you’ve used with regards to extroverts and introverts that is a question sort of that Wendy and I having read the book had talked a lot about because in the book it it feels as if you have you know given your story as an introverted empath as some of you may know I’m extremely extroverted and so I’m more of an extrovert empath and so could you talk to us a little bit about these differences in terms of you know I I do love going to parties and I do love talking to people and being out there and and that fills me up versus if I’m alone all the energies that I’ve picked up tend to make me really feel just more alone I can’t get out of the loop so can you speak on that yeah they’re both introverted and paths and extroverted empaths I happen to be introverted what are you I am definitely the introverted type of empath yeah and and there is extroverted and most empaths are introverted but some are extroverted and by introverted I mean I like to be alone you know I I’m a writer and I like to be in my room alone you know with my own energy just allowing the creative flow to happen I enjoy that that’s like the epitome of my life experience you know at that at that moment but extroverts they tend to go out more and I go out but I don’t go out that much and that’s okay with me I’d rather be in nature I’d rather be in quiet tranquil environments or one-to-one but you’re an extroverted empath so you go out into environments but my guess is you need to decompress afterwards is that you know at some point I think one of the things that I sleep really deeply and I have a feeling that part of the reason that I sleep deeply is because I have I process it in my sleep versus out in about in the world and I mean I just felt that um some of the things in the book talked about some things to help an extrovert empath if any of you can – that is going to meetings with other people who also experience it because then you’re amongst other people because that was my big thing is I I just I can’t function to take it all in and be by myself taking it all in well it just varies I mean you might identify with various levels of this and so it just depends how you process things and I just want everyone to know if you identify with any of this you’re not neurotic you’re not crazy there’s nothing wrong with you it’s a sensitivity level that I believe is important to develop and certainly a massage therapy you know you’re feeling what’s going on in other people and so the sensitivity is there and we need more empathy in our world today you know desperately I mean in places like Google to have empathy for each other you know and to make your work environment really positive and caring I think is a wonderful thing and have empathy for you know the world and to bring that in you know it’s something I’m really passionate about thanks to that I feel you know very privileged to be in this company because there is such a spirit of inclusion and respect for diversity and I also know that I have you know my my own characteristics where I get frustrated or feel victimized by things that happened to me in my day and so when I was reading I thought I wonder sometimes if I’m also an energy vampire like do I flip between these two things what if I’m this source of drain for somebody else and how do i reconcile that with with also being an empath because once I get through my mood I’m kind of back to my to myself but I’m one of my goals for this year is meditation and I’ve done a good job and I feel like it’s helping me but I really don’t want to be that to other people so how how do I work on that and how does an empath reconcile also sometimes being the energy vampire it’s a great question it’s a very humble question actually if we can all ask that there’s a chapter on the book on combating narcissists and other energy vampires and it’s important if you’re sensitive to identify who are the drainers especially in the work environment you can have a lot of different kind of drainers know from the drama queen to the chronic talker to the narcissist to the passive-aggressive person so there are many kinds of energy vampires and yes we can all be drainers we can all be energy vampires so not to think about is that oh them or him or her but when we you know get in to our kind of low ourselves and we get you know our buttons are pushed and were triggered and we’re tired and we’re not in our best selves then you know we can be victims you know or we can be talkers or we can be you know just people who bring others down and so if that’s okay I mean that’s part of being human and it’s great to recognize it in yourself I mean that’s so great that you ask that question and you know it’s wonderful also because you can catch yourself you know with the awareness when you start getting into those energy vampire States you can say okay you know or if your coworker you know I hope has the freedom to point it out you know it’s a little touchy subject but to say you know I love you or I respect you so much I love working with you but you’re complaining a lot today I don’t know if you have the freedom do you well Googlers tend to be extremely kind there I’m sure there are conversations like that that are done you know very um I don’t know what the fact fully tactfully thank you I’d say I think that’s true people here are very kind and have a lot of exhibit a lot of Tolerance intact and we always need to work on feeling like we can bring up a challenging situation and and discuss it in a non-threatening way with people so yeah I hope that that’s the case and because somebody who is rolling with their being an energy vampire it can really bring down the work environment so it’s really a toxic influence and so I feel that that needs to be addressed as you said compassionately and lovingly because sometimes we don’t know when we get into those states and it could just go on and on and on and you don’t want that in a work environment you obstinate ly want positive energy in your work environment you want it to be easy and fun so your mind can just go to creative places you know and really envision you know the amazing things for yourself and an energy vampire is important to identify because they could bring it down and so to address it not punitive ly but lovingly you know I hope I don’t I hope that there’s a way to do that here and to recognize you know not to get angry at the person but that they need understanding not to tell somebody they’re an energy vampire basically so in moving on with the questions we wanted to ask sort of related to that a person who may be not just in a phase in that moment as an energy vampire but that’s their personality they’re like full-on complete like a narcissist or something lacking neuroplasticity teaches that our brains neural circuitry is malleable and the studies have shown that mindfulness meditation that includes loving-kindness that you talked about can rewire the brain so is it possible that somebody who could possibly have a full-blown on low empath narcissists rate personality change with that it’s very hard for narcissists to change however I just want to say narcissists can be really creative and productive and have great ideas and be very intuitive so they’re not all negative in the work environment it’s just the problem comes in personally where you interact with them because they just think of themselves and they don’t really care about what you’re feeling because they empathy the full-blown narcissist knew her self-absorbed and they become cold withholding and punishing when you don’t do things their way so it doesn’t make for a great management style it really doesn’t and so you know hopefully they’re not too many here you know in terms of narcissists because it doesn’t foster creativity it shuts people off it makes people feel small and damaged and not heard and not listened to and it’s so important if you’re sensitive and you’re an empath you know you care you know you really care about others and you don’t want to be shut off but if you do have narcissus here you know just take advantage of all their strengths as nobody’s all bad you know the there’s a Buddha and a demon inside everybody it just depends on what we feed we want to feed the best parts of ourselves you know the most sensitive the most low being the most compassionate you know and then understand that we can be energy vampires sometimes we can be a get go through a bad period so I think with the narcissist if you look at what they can give to a work environment and not expect them to be your best friend it’s a lot of patients who come to me of narcissistic bosses and that’s really hard because you really have to frame things in terms of how it will serve them for them to be on your side and it’s tedious ego stroking and it’s hard for sensitive people but if you want to have a vacation let’s say you don’t say I’m so tired I really need a break now they won’t give it to you but if you say this will serve the business then a narcissist will say oh okay how and so then it would make more sense to give you a vacation then so ideally you don’t have to do that but in case you’re ever faced with it now that’s one tactic that will work well I think that leads really nicely into the next part of our questions which really involve how do we work with these tendencies in a workplace what are some solutions when were faced with small personal space lots going on lots of distractions and and then we want to be able to be as creative as possible and work at our highest levels so what can we do as as empaths to foster that all right well one thing I noticed here Google is the high ceilings I mean that helps to have a feeling of space and it’s very beautiful to me I feel like I could breathe here I don’t feel claustrophobic I don’t everywhere I look it’s high ceiling so I’m not do you have low ceilings other places yeah not so many no yeah so that helps with the feeling of spaciousness but in terms of techniques to use i really suggest meditation there’s a 4 or 3 minute meditation where you can just check in with yourself for 3 minutes close your eyes focus on your heart focus on something really positive in your life and breathe out stress and focus on the positive and during those 3 minutes you can recalibrate yourself and you could come back to your Center because part of the skill of being an empath in an environment is learning how to come back when you start to swirl or when somebody pushes your button and you’re triggered or you’re disappointed by something or something happens in your personal life and suddenly you go down you know to recenter yourself through minute this 3 minute quick meditation is a form of coming back to you that a lot of people don’t know how to do that you know once you swirl they just start swirling and so learning how to breathe the breath is very powerful because the breath you can breathe out stress and you can breathe in clarity or calm peacefulness but to breathe out stress the breath actually carries the stress out of you out of your body which is what you want so these regular meditation breaks I really suggest you know to help you feel better and to help you reconnect with your creativity I keep coming back to that with this audience the creativity is so important for you to be able to really play parent and to play to feel comfortable you have to be in a good environment and you mentioned that you have a closed environment in some places that there are a lot of people in a small space a lot of people on a small space how much room do you have between you I’m not the best person to speak to that because I think I work in a spacious place that much room okay all right that’s not much room all right and so you need to create your own personal space at least you have that much room it’s an open space environment okay all right that’s particularly challenging for sensitive people and so you have to make your desk your spiritual station you know your energy station however you can be comfortable there with pictures of people I wear the coin yen around my neck who’s the goddess of compassion if she really sets a tone of compassion sometimes gemstones are important to put around the desk or whatever is it sensors you it could be anything it doesn’t have to be spiritual objects it could be anything that you love to create a circle of safety around your desk and like a bubble of invisibility you know if you feel like being invisible and visualization is very important for that if you have an open space environment to visualize a protective bubble around your environments and although you see other people and you hear them talking and they’re moving you’re in your safe place and so what you’re doing is summoning your own inner power to create a visualization for yourself you’re not helpless in this environment and when you begin to experience that you’ll feel incredible relief so then you can focus you know it’s when I learned to meditate I learned how to do it in a room or next door they were having it was a Sunday and they were having meetings prayer meetings with songs and so when I was learning how to meditate I had a lot of external distractions which was really helpful for me because I what I learned how not to be thrown off and that’s part of this path of empowering sensitivity is how do you learn to set ears amidst distraction and chaos you see and so you can look at it as a fun challenge and I don’t know if can you hear other people talking next to you you can hear them all right are you allowed to wear earbuds here okay well sometimes that’s helpful the in playing nice music so you can use you know these techniques but most important energetically you want to just focus on your own energy your own space your own creativity and not on the somebody cracking their gum next to you the same paths are very sensitive to that by coughing cracking of gum clearing up the throat you know all that you know just it’s important to focus on yourself so that you can screen out external distractions and you could be in your best place so on that note talking about the things that we can do in our workplace like one thing that I have told clients that I know that they find their peace on weekends out in nature I’ve told them go you know get a picture of that and put it in your workspace so that when you’re feeling that overwhelming this and your minds just racing and everything’s distracting you look at that picture to sort of calm that down and on that note talking about the different types of empaths you do speak of that in your book would you like to sort of go over a few of those for people because once you sort of recognize this is what I took away from the book what type of empath that you are there’s going to be different tools obviously that will work for you better than for a different type of empath yeah they’re different types of empath and some empaths are emotional and paths where you’re especially sensitive to other people’s emotions for instance if somebody’s angry and they come into work anger you take it on you know or somebody is depressed you can be sitting next to somebody and suddenly your energy is going down and you’re starting to feel a little depressed and you pick up their emotions and so empath are sensitive to emotions and some are even sensitive to physical issues where you can pick up let’s say your co-worker has back pain and suddenly your back begins to ache so it’s just something to watch out for in yourself and then there’s empath called intuitive empath and these empaths are very open to their intuition now really tuned into intuition I personally feel as a psychiatrist and a temp path that is so vital to listen to that inner voice and impasse have it and a little bit more open than other people but everybody can connect to their intuition and that’s the still small inner voice that comes through gut feelings or the enteric nervous system in the gut has actual neurotransmitters that convey information like the brain so what’s going on in your gut can convey information and so as an intuitive empath you can train yourself to listen to your gut feeling it’s about somebody let’s say you’re hiring somebody and they oh they look totally good on paper they look amazing but when you’re sitting across from them your energy is going down now what is that telling you you know it could be that this isn’t a good match for your particular environment as you want to have people who are energetically harmonious and when you hire people when you interview people when you’re an intuitive empath you can develop intuitive skills in terms of you look at what they present on paper but you also can feel what’s going on in them you see so you listen to your gut feeling you listen to a hunch you listen to it AHA knowing that it can be waves of goosebumps let’s say yes this person is right this is exciting this is going to be a great match or you can you know feel a kind of a downward thud know or a wall or something that’s unpleasant but when you train yourself as an empath and as a human being to listen to your intuition it can give you extra information and so that’s really essential but what happens is sometimes people don’t listen to their intuition and they second-guess themselves you know particularly in a very linear environment you know where you’re given information something doesn’t feel right I really encourage you to weigh that you know in your relationship choices and in how you do with your coworkers because it will tell you maybe I should stay away from this co-worker today maybe they need a bit more space and it’s a gift to give them that you know and to honor that they seem to be in their own world they seem to want to go into a cave alright fine I’ll give that to them and I won’t talk to them that much if possible you see so you can really have deep compassion for your co-workers and for others by developing this skill of intuition that many empaths haven’t some of the specific types some empaths are animal empaths I see there’s a doggy in here that’s so great that you’re allowed to bring dogs here oh that’s amazing for a big dog culture you are an impasse have a communing with with animals with dogs with cats with wild animals so with birds that they some feel a very deep connection to animals and some have a deep connection to the natural world and plants they love to have plants they love to garden and some have a view as you said a connection to their dream life there were some impasse there dreamers and they can tune into their dreams to get guidance in the morning by remembering your dreams so these are all intuitive outlets that you can really explore and play with you know as a sensitive person as opposed to being a disembodied head who is just a linear person who lives up from here I’m really advocating being in your mind and reasoning and in the body listening to your intuition and your sensitivities as you can be both and sometimes there’s a bias against men doing this and I have a facebook empath group and it’s over 11,000 people and it may be 85% men I mean women and 15% men so no it’s harder sometimes for men I don’t know how it is there are a lot of men in this audience which is fantastic if it’s harder to come Sam an intuitive feeling person and I’m also really intelligent and smart and creative and grounded so to balance everything for both men and women who are empath so there was one other empath that I wanted to ask you about and and I’m also kind of looking at time and want to make sure that we leave some time for people who have questions out there so you had spoken about being in nature actually I think it was you Heather but it came up again when Judith was speaking and you speak about earthing or right about earthing in your book and I often will tell my clients after their session you know you may want to take a few minutes we’re close to the beach or find a patch of grass and take your shoes off stick your feet in it can you speak to how that helps us that so helps us in so many ways you know to get out in nature and take your shoes off and go barefoot in the grass or go barefoot on the ocean and just feel yourself what that feels like and just the freedom and it often reminds you of how you were as a child and if you had the opportunity to be in nature as a child and to reclaim that and to just go play and feel what’s coming up the electron exchange with the earth I mean I I have very strong feelings about the earth and preserving our environment and and how we connect to our environment and how our bodies are intimately connected to the earth so of course we’re going to feel if the earth is harmed and so the mission of helping the earth needs to be number one above all things as far as I’m concerned and it’s difficult for impasse in this day and time with the support of the earth not really being there in our social environments it’s just devastating you know for me when I hear about certain ravages of the earth however you know you can go out and connect you see people aren’t trained to connect to the earth and if you stay in an office for too long or it’s not actually in office it’s an open-air environment but if you stay closed up too long if you stay at your computer too long you can get kind of sealed off from the world and you want to connect you want to take a break the computer and your work and go out you’re so close to the beach here you could take a walk and go down to the ocean and see all the seagulls and now get into your child again you know I know you you know you’re adults and you work at Google and you have very you know important jobs and you know you really are playing a role in bettering the world but it’s good to also let that down you know and go and play you know if you can just go and connect to the earth and you could lie on the earth you could climb a tree you could meditate by a tree no but but to have that playfulness you know not and past tend to get overly serious and life is short so you want to have as much playfulness as you possibly can to remind yourself of that because you deserve it you know I kind of live with the philosophy of this is the day I’m given the eternal now and I don’t know about tomorrow necessarily I know about today and I want to make it the best possible and that isn’t just work work work all the time though I’ve always been a workaholic you know I’ve always loved to work when I was a little girl my report card the teacher said you know I need to take the pressure off myself like I’m seven years old my parents didn’t give me I was born that way and so you know it’s important for me to find the balance because I could get lost in my in writing and patience and what’s you know basics you know in the internet you know going on google and googling things all the time so it’s important dance dance is a good way to to sort of get ya body moving so you’re in your body yeah yeah but just moving and you know being in the body is an important way to balance and but I just want to acknowledge the this environment you know how creative it is and you know what an opportunity you have here you know as employees of Google to really you know create and change the world it feels like in changing the world is here it just feels so important to be here so you brought up children and I know there’s a section in your book about that and I guess part of changing the world is also making sure that we influence our children to be good human beings as they impact the world themselves so absolutely it’s so important to support the sensitivities and our children as they’re gonna save the world you know they need to be raised in a way where you know you look at them and you say you’re sensitive you’re open and that’s beautiful and there’s nothing to be ashamed of and just because you may not want to be on the football team and you may want to go into the forest and meditate you know that makes you unique and beautiful well you don’t have to fit these children these sensitive children or indigo children these new children that have a certain consciousness coming into the world you don’t want to fit them into some arbitrary mold you want to really help them and support them and a lot of times as children you might not have been supported you know in your sensitivities or intuition and that hurts as I know as an empath child and I had two physician parents and 25 physicians in my family so I came from this long lineage of scientific thinkers and I was a feeler I would feel things I would know things I would you know process it differently than a traditionally scientific person although I did go through medical school and I conquered you know that to balance both the intuitive and the you know the scientific but it wasn’t how I was born and so I’ve had to reclaim that as a psychiatrist and as an adult and that’s what I’m inviting you all to do is to be as linear as you want to be as inventive in your minds but also you know reclaim your sensitivity and your openness and your playfulness your connection to the earth we can be everything I love that shall we yes around the so we all have about 10 minutes or so if people have questions just go ahead and raise your hand and we’ll be glad to throw you not usually I’m even that’s so creative where he shoots through the mic and a little box over to him hi I had a question I noticed in your bio it mentioned energy awareness and through my process understanding the human energy system and how to work with it has been really valuable for me I did it through medical Qigong I’m just curious what kind of energy awareness all that a little bit and just curious what kind of energy awareness techniques you use in your practice can you repeat that funny so he wanted to know what kind of energy awareness won’t techniques that Judith uses in her practice and he found it through I’m sorry was it in she gan Jiu Qi Gong mm-hmm Qigong is a wonderful way to Center your energy it’s a movement where you Center your energy and you feel the universal energies in your body and that’s a beautiful energy technique in you could even do cheek on here you know to go out somewhere and practice you know here and just do a few movements what I use in my practice is that I teach people to meditate and I also work on them energetically where I put my hands over their various chakras to balance it and teach them to open up their hearts shameless plug we offer Tai Chi which has Qi Gong and elements in it weekly so yeah so I brought an instructor we are weekly for and you can join us at the lax Tai Chi group in emails and it’s Monday’s from to there is a cost because I’ve brought in the instructor but we meet over in the bin 5 courtyard or inside the bunker when it’s called that’s fantastic a lot of people who are not empathic right they might be kind they might be changing the world and not might not be necessarily narcistic is there some tool some kind of myers-briggs personality test kind of thing so that is recognize that they are not empathic yeah and if there is one and then we know what do we do with it once we have once we know the person is not empathic what are the actions apart from meditation can a person take to sort of develop that that’s a great question once you how do you identify it if somebody doesn’t have empathy and then how do you deal with it okay the best way is to provoke a small conflict because if you provoke a conflict you can see how they deal with it as if they have why are you little conflict you know let’s say they they say let’s meet today at and you say well I can’t do it attempted I’ll do it I mean even just a little little thing like that somebody who doesn’t have empathy is going to become cold withhold a judgmental punishing and change they’re very nice personality into a different one and so narcissus who don’t have empathy don’t like it when you don’t do things their way all right have you met people like that no I just meant to say that maybe there’s another classification out there which is basically kind people not necessarily 90 but they are not empathic they have don’t have that merit mirror neurons to say they do not understand what are you going through so they cannot relate to you in general they are sympathetic but not empathic all right they’re very kind people they’re not there but they are not they cannot understand what you’re going through your emotions then this’ll state this is a you come in and you you look very sad and you don’t want to work but let’s say it’s a manager or somebody else but he doesn’t recognize that I knew thinking why does he not recognize that so they are lack empathy just they don’t know that they are trampling over somebody yes let me make the distinction of lacking empathy versus someone just being in their heads because sometimes people are self-absorbed or in their heads and they’re not tuning in emotionally to you happens but that doesn’t necessarily make them a narcissist and they could be the kindest person but they can also be out of touch with their feelings yes exactly that they could be but I see a lot of people in general are very kind sympathy don’t change the world when when it comes to personal relationship because they are very smart and then in brains they did Jordan they don’t tune in to their empathic centers or they do not have develop synthetic Center so they just relate with your brain yes yes but they’re kind people find people they don’t want to harm anybody they don’t want to like but they do not understand their actions in fact other human beings do you find that that’s common that’s common really okay that’s not not a system that’s right right well I mean that leaves an opening an emotional training and intuitive training for people here you know it’s something that’s really important to train in a safe environment and if that’s the case a lot of times it’s something to think about but in terms of your expectations of them you could come in with a broken heart and they probably won’t see it yeah and and to not take that personally yeah yeah there is the way I was I was thinking more in terms of in myers-briggs test you go or take an online test and it tells you what letters you are entp ISTP whichever might be the case so is there a online test I can go and say hey you’re not empathic your empathy is out of one 230 or 20 so that we know and we can say to each other oh we are 20 is 100 so we know each other in some objective way an effective way oh yeah that would be in well in and you would want to pass that around and have everyone take it yeah that would be that would be the Google way of doing it all right well I mean there’s certainly a self-assessment test at the beginning of this book with 20 questions that people can take and determine where they are on the empathy scale but you know there could be other other ways to do it too in terms of creating more for tests and scores but that’s that’s a good idea but I think the goal would be really to help people recognize yeah because the more empathy you have the better your work environment is gonna be because you’re gonna feel safe you don’t want to lose it you don’t want to overdo it you know that sometimes empaths can be you know help too much and they give too much so they want to be too compassionate and they’re looking at you in the eyes too deeply so it feels intrusive that kind of thing you don’t want to become that but you want to become smart intuitive caring and blend it all and that takes some training sometimes to do it and hopefully the book will do it but trainings can help posture you will recognize it at least you can know that this person is at least like that it’s okay you know inclusive absolutely but you know also to recognize that being a good person is the best thing anyone could do and even though you know they might lack other you know abilities if you’re a good person that’s a beautiful beautiful thing you know it really is so to recognize that in each other and you know to affirm that you know namaste I respect the spirit within you you know to be able to say that to each other even you know with all your faults you know we have tons of faults all of us we’re not perfect but if we do the best we can and we’re loving people no give people credit where credit is due and when you can affirm that in others the whole environment in the work environment can just increase the vibration increase the frequency when you do that as opposed to looking at all the negatives in someone it’s much easier to look at the negatives you know and criticize them and what they’re doing wrong but the shift in consciousness in terms of awareness of empathy is trying to see the best in people you know not their worst you want to bring out the best in people when we talk about empathy normally we talk about social with other people so I thought kind of a separate question a little different here we engineer I think a lot of other engineers and even judith yourself you said you like to work like writing by yourself sometimes I feel the stress actually from the work not with interacting with other people when you have something difficult something you don’t understand for a while especially later of the day you can’t tired your cognitive capability tends to be done and my personal experience sometimes in that situation I started have self-doubt and it’s kind of become a downward spiral and that negative energy can I can bring with me home even though I’m already out of work as you think about it but maybe after a night the next day I looked at it again I can’t figure it out it seems so simple so what can you suggest to do to prevent you know just to bring the negative frustration out of work when you want to not think about it at that time a very good question how do you not take the work energy home basically and you mentioned self-doubt yes did you mention self-doubt yeah because you know I can figure this out maybe I was not good enough all right well I’m a big believer in affirmations and so it’s important to really affirm everyday what you did well you know and at the end of the day you can make that a ritual to just say what did I do well today what did I contribute and it could be the tiniest thing it could be a big thing it doesn’t matter but instead of you know the self-doubt no when I talk about the demon and the Buddha inside the self doubt comes from more the demon side you know where you have to work with it everybody has self-doubt we all have self-doubt but when you affirm I did this well today I did that well today and I was breathing today I was walking today I came to work I had a day of life you know really you could just get always get back to that you know to it to affirm that and also to have a closure meditation when you are ready to leave work to actually sit close your eyes breathe center yourself say thank you for this opportunity of work today and then I’m leaving and so to have an official ritual of closure and to let go of what happened at work and that will help you I don’t when I’m finished with my patience you know usually I forget about it I know I go on to the next thing you know unless there’s something in particular that I you know that I need to think about a little bit more but I go on I’m a hundred percent present when I’m working like with here I’m a hundred percent present but when I go on I want to grab the next moment you know and inhabit the next moment so it’s good as a sensitive person to be present in the moment and then keep moving you know it’s like the warrior you make your yell and then you move you know and that’s it and so we know that that’s important to think about to be in the moment and how do you be in the moment and you can have a mantra even you know let it be no I’m being in the now you know and to bring your mind back because we have control over our thoughts our attitudes in our mind and so when we go into self-doubt you go ah self-doubt I know you all right instead I’m gonna breathe I’m gonna focus on my heart and I’m gonna look at what I did well and let’s say I need improvement in something I will work on that and we all you know are constantly works in progress and so they have a lot of compassion for yourself every day and what you go through we all go through so much you know all as a psychiatrist I mean I know well how much we all go through and so just you know give people a break see the best in them and you know try and be empathic for what they go through even if it’s not something maybe you can relate to but if you’re empathic and your heart goes out now that’s a good thing it’s really a beautiful thing to relate to one another in that way hello kind of along those same lines I find what’s really emotional draining for me is being constantly connected be on my phone all social media things like that do you find it it’s important for especially for sensitive people to have that time to disconnect maybe have a day without their phone like is there tips and tools that you’d recommend I think it’s important to have a technology fast and not go on social media and turn off your phone and leave your phone at home and go for a walk on the beach so that you’re not tethered to the phone I mean even in the gym sometimes I bring my phone and I put it on the you know the treadmill and I have to talk to myself and just leave it in the locker don’t bring it you know your world can exist you know for a short period of time without that phone but you know it’s very addictive technology and so you have to really make that extra effort to say no to it and it makes me feel so much better when I’m not near anything you know there’s a monastery that we go to sometimes in in retreat Tassajara monastery they don’t even have electricity they have no you know cell phone coverage they have no electricity kerosene lamps so you’re forced into you know a beautiful retreat of you know without technology so I think that makes you better when you come to work when you have those bricks as if you keep checking and checking and checking it puts you in a zombie-like state and it’s not in the body and so to put it down a little bit and go dance I think dancing you know they what you mentioned or movement any kind of movement the Qigong movement dancing walking exercising looking up at the stars and the Sun it just replenishing it’s very important without technology and just want to add one thing and that is when we talked about the children and what we’re teaching our kids that our future is we’re teaching them this importance of how much our phones are and they they are will say thing what do you mean you you lost your phone what are you gonna do like even they as young as five are picking up on our attachments to our phones so I had my daughter very worried one night because my husband out for a walk and didn’t have this phone and I thought oh this this is a day without a phone I think it’s a new GDG class and thank you both Heather and Wendy for having me here and thank you all for coming thank you you

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